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According to Director Bill Condon, 'Breaking Dawn' is Female Horror

Bill Condon, the director of the latest installment in the Twilight series, was interviewed by io9 writer Charlie Jane Anders, and in said interview he claims that his movie is very "female" for a variety of reasons.

Mixing "horror" and "romance," according to Condon, results in "female horror." Twilight, as a story, is about "the important markers in a woman's life," and you know, it has a lead female character, so.. it's "female" and for women, I guess. He says Bella is an "incredibly strong female character," and that she is heroic "because she is thinking about sacrificing any kind of sense of safety in the service of something that she thinks of as more important than herself." He thinks Bella's story is "an extraordinary kind of journey for this character who started out in such an ordinary way."

Before you think I'm misquoting or exaggerating or in general being a c**t again, here're the exact quotes:

Quote:

io9: There's a lot of horror that deals with alienation, but not a lot of horror that deals with romance as its main subject - what's it like mashing up horror and romance?

BC: It's so interesting. Another way of saying that, is that it's female horror, you know? [Twilight] concerns itself with important markers in a woman's life, and the woman is the central character. It's through her point of view that we experience things. It gets more inside the ideas, like the horror of what's growing inside you. That's also connected to your lover growing inside you. The horror of being invaded, along with your desire to be invaded. You know, all those issues sort of swirl around this film franchise.

Is Breaking Dawn a feminist narrative? Is Bella a role model for women?

I don't know about "role model." But I do think she's an incredibly strong female character, who has a sense of what she wants, and what's right, and goes after it. I find her extremely heroic in this movie, because she is thinking about sacrificing any kind of sense of safety in the service of something that she thinks of as more important than herself. But that's just the physical thing she goes through. And then in the second part of it, when she turns into a fierce kind of warrior vampire goddess. It's an extraordinary kind of journey for this character who started out in such an ordinary way.

What's neat is that the interviewer, Charlie Jane, has zero opinion on anything he says. She's clearly a huge fan of the series and has read the books (she asks in-depth questions about imprinting and stuff) but she offers zero insight into what her own thoughts are or what she thinks of Condon's answers. Perhaps io9's general policy for interviews is not to make too big and splashy a deal of it; just cut and paste the questions and answers. That's possible. It is also possible that Charlie Jane agrees with Condon completely (she is a fan of the series, as I said, so it is unlikely that she thinks Bella sucks). I have no idea. But what I do know is that there is no comment offered by anyone on his statements within the article itself. (I also think it's a really lazy way to post an interview; you don't have to write anything. You just copy 'n' paste. End of article.

I, on the other hand, am chock full of opinion. And I think that there's some insulting insinuations behind Condon's answers.

First of all, mixing actual, real horror with romance results in "female horror." No. There is no such thing as "male" or "female" horror. There is "horror" and various themes within the individual horror films can appeal to either men or women or both in various ways for any number of different reasons. I have seen films that appealed to my femininity and personal life experience that I would call "feminist" horror, that explored gender and sexuality not only from a white, male perspective but from multiple perspectives. None of these films were about "romance." There's nothing wrong with mixing romance and horror - just when you do, please don't call it "women's horror." Because it's not. The stories do not frighten adult women on any level - they show adolescent girls the importance of having a boyfriend (to paraphrase Stephen King, who got it right).

And while we're at it, since when is getting married immediately out of high school and getting pregnant when you're not emotionally or mentally ready to be a mother characterize "the important markers in a woman's life?" The important marker's in a MAN's life do not include getting married and having children, apparently. These are what marks a woman's life; not discovering her sexuality (does Bella even get a chance to do that?) or finding a life's purpose or career or solving the riddle of her own identity or exploring the world - NO. A woman's life consists of finding a boyfriend when she's 17 and then MARRYING him as fast as possible so she can have a baby.

Don't snap at me. That's what the director's statement implies. Did he mean it to sound that way? Probably not. He's a dude, and he just thinks that if you're talking about stuff in chicks' lives, the important stuff is probably, like, babies and boyfriends, right? He doesn't know. He's just a dude.

I'm appalled that he calls Bella an "incredibly strong female character." Not because Bella can't be strong simply because she's in a romantic story. Bella may very well BE strong. I think that's okay. I'm irked that Condon says she's strong NOT because she faces off with vampires and wins, or because she seeks out an innovative, interesting life despite her father's fears, but that she is heroic "because she is thinking about sacrificing any kind of sense of safety in the service of something that she thinks of as more important than herself." Yet again, we have a female character who must put an end to her own desires, dreams, and safety so she can better serve her man and his baby. Now she's a baby machine. Just like Stephanie Meyer was before she started writing this shit.

He thinks Bella's character "started out in such an ordinary way" and now her life is "extraordinary." I think, on the surface, that may seem like the way it is. But maybe we can read Bella's narrative in a healthier, less sexist way, too. Maybe Bella wasn't so damn ordinary before she met her man. Maybe Bella was a young woman with hopes and dreams starting out in a new town having to forge her own destiny. That's not ordinary. Having a boyfriend and getting pregnant didn't make her "extraordinary," like he seems to imply. It made her ordinary. Even though she's surrounded by vampires and werewolves and men who would fight to the death to be near her, Bella ends up just like you, and me, and all the other normal women in the world: married and pregnant, with no career (just kidding, I'm not pregnant). I'm not sure what her "journey" is except the journey of rushing into marriage with an abusive guy who knocks you up asap, then almost dying because the pregnancy is tough and you're barely 17. Yeah, real heroic.

Maybe I'm a lesbian feminazi, but I just don't see anything about the Twilight movies as feminist, or as specifically about women. I think they are FOR women, because the media (Condon) sees women as creatures who like romances about having babies and boyfriends and all the exciting vampire and action shit is secondary, so that's what they create FOR women. But these are not stories ABOUT women. Bella is a character completely controlled by the men around her, and her destiny is intertwined with theirs irrevocably.

Make stupid teenage paranormal romance movies like Twilight and make as much money as possible, but please don't say you're making "women's horror" when you're not. Stop stereotyping and blaming women for this horrible series that makes me want to shoot myself in the eyeballs repeatedly. Blame the people who deserve it: Stephanie Meyer. But don't blame me. I don't want to watch this shit.


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zwillis's picture
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"Makes me want to shoot myself in the eyeballs repeatedly."

Thanks for that vision. Made me laugh quite a bit.

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I won't degrade any fans of the Twilight series for liking the films. After all, I'm the guy who gave Mega Piranha a 5 rating, and I think we can all agree that's one lousy movie (but so much fun for all the right reasons).

The problem with the Twilight series is everyone's attempt to make it more than it is, a Harlequin romance with vampires and werewolves. And if that's what you like, great. I like lousy CGI monsters. Let's call it a draw.

But when the filmmakers start trying to build up the film as something greater, something feminist, something (dare I say) Oscar worthy, that's when I start getting angry. Let the misguided critics do that job for you (which, if you look at Roger Corman's productions, they're often happy to call budget cutting moments "artistic expressions"). Stop trying to oversell your product to the horror fans who won't bother seeing it. No matter what you say, we're going to stay away from the theaters this weekend, because we know what you're spreading.

And it ain't the truth.

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This is coming from someone who is a romance author and who doesn't even hate Twilight (I'm not a Twihard, but it makes for fun viewing/reading): This interview is infuriating.

"[Twilight] concerns itself with important markers in a woman's life, and the woman is the central character. It's through her point of view that we experience things. It gets more inside the ideas, like the horror of what's growing inside you. That's also connected to your lover growing inside you. The horror of being invaded, along with your desire to be invaded. You know, all those issues sort of swirl around this film franchise."

[Twilight] concerns itself with important markers in a woman's life.

As you mentioned, Heidi, why are early marriage and childbirth considered markers in a woman's life, but not a man's? I personally have decided not to marry or have children; does that make me less of a woman, or mean that I don't have a life?

and the woman is the central character.

OK, women have always been the central characters of romance--but many early romances were anything but feminist. In some of these works at least, the heroines showed little spirit and had few ambitions beyond finding them a man and birthin' babies. Many of us in the modern romance industry consider ourselves romance reformers; our heroines make things happen, they don't just have things happen to them.

That's also connected to your lover growing inside you.

Ew! WTF does that mean?

The horror of being invaded, along with your desire to be invaded.

This to me is the worst and most destructive assertion of all. The very essence of being invaded is that something is being done to you that you don't want. Imagine reading this in a history book: "The people of this country expressed horror at being invaded by their enemies, but deep down they really desired that invasion." The director is not really doing justice to his own character, as Bella does choose to marry a vampire, become a vampire, and give birth; when many around her (including Edward, at certain points) resist those decisions strongly. And he's not doing justice to women in general.

Also, I agree 100 percent that the reporter was too passive; I've stood up to politicians in rooms filled with their own supporters, sternly questioned religious leaders, etc.; that's part of our job as journalists. We have to ask the tough questions, and question further the answers that are given.

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Chris McMillan wrote:

...Harlequin romance with vampires and werewolves.

Trashy romance novels are far more exciting than the Twilight movies. I was totally ready to like them -- the sexist rhetoric surrounding the "Twatlight" hatred spurred me on to embrace it. Alas, the sheer boredom got the better of me. Especially in the second one. Holy fucking jesus, when will it end??? That was pretty much my thought process throughout the however-many-hours of slo-mo shenanigans. Ugh.

Then there's the sexist plot. Dear god. Your husband slashed your face up? Well, if you really love him, you'll stay with him. He promises to try to not do it again!

Anyway, this interview reminds me of how irritating the build up to The Expendables was, and any given beer or truck commercial. These are for MEN! This is a manly movie, for men! Manly men! No girls allowed! etc. And just like many women will respond favourably to Condon's assessment, many men bask in their constructed, self-destructive manly-manliness.

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Chris McMillan wrote:

...Harlequin romance with vampires and werewolves.

It all goes back to Romeo & Juliet. Fucking Shakespeare...

Gore Gore Girl wrote:

Anyway, this interview reminds me of how irritating the build up to The Expendables was, and any given beer or truck commercial. These are for MEN! This is a manly movie, for men! Manly men!

You mean male macho masculine manful manly men. Get it right. We're too insecure for you to miss any available appropriate adjectives. :-)

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I think there is a better argument that Elle Woods in Legally Blonde is a strong female character than there is for Bella.

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I can't take any of this seriously when I now know this site is linked to sexist crap like shocktilyoudrop.com. I'd rather see Kirsten Stewart at least trying to act than have 'babe of the day' come up on my browser.

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How did I miss this? This a reimagining of Twilight: If Edward had met Buffy instead of Bella. I think this is a far more interesting interaction:

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Quote:

Maybe I'm a lesbian feminazi, but I just don't see anything about the Twilight movies as feminist, or as specifically about women. I think they are FOR women, because the media (Condon) sees women as creatures who like romances about having babies and boyfriends and all the exciting vampire and action shit is secondary, so that's what they create FOR women. But these are not stories ABOUT women. Bella is a character completely controlled by the men around her, and her destiny is intertwined with theirs irrevocably.

Thank you and I think it's important to tell the difference. For example, some people bring up the romantic elements of "Dracula" and try to make a similar argument about "Twilight" saying "Well you see Dracula has romance too. You see it's all very similar." Yeah, but Dracula was still primarily horror with the subtext of romance, but that was not the main focus of that book. Plus Dracula wanted to rip your fucking heart out and eat it as well. Plus someone mentioned they thought "Near Dark" was like "Twilight" because of the romance between the characters May and Caleb. I never got that from the movie it was more about a pack of vampires terrorizing people with one of the characters trying to decide to commit to that life or not. Again the romance was just a subplot, not the main focus of the movie. There isn't anything wrong with mixing romance, but Twilight is romance/dark fantasy it isn't truly horror just because it has vampires they are used in a fantastical way that relates more to dark fantasy than it relates to real horror in my opinion at least. People are trying to make this more than what it really is. I love how people always associate that it being "female horror" or "feminist" just because it has a woman in it or girls. That is very lazy way of comparing two different things just because they have females in it. There are in no way related.

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rabbit, please explain yourself. How are we "linked" to Shock Till You Drop? We have nothing to do with them. I don't read that site so I am not aware of any "babe of the day" and I resent you saying something like that without an explanation. If you have a problem with another site, go complain to that other site, don't do it here.

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rabbit_with_fangs wrote:

I can't take any of this seriously when I now know this site is linked to sexist crap like shocktilyoudrop.com.

Oh, we so do not.

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Gore Gore Girl wrote:
Chris McMillan wrote:

...Harlequin romance with vampires and werewolves.

Trashy romance novels are far more exciting than the Twilight movies. I was totally ready to like them -- the sexist rhetoric surrounding the "Twatlight" hatred spurred me on to embrace it. Alas, the sheer boredom got the better of me. Especially in the second one. Holy fucking jesus, when will it end??? That was pretty much my thought process throughout the however-many-hours of slo-mo shenanigans. Ugh.

Then there's the sexist plot. Dear god. Your husband slashed your face up? Well, if you really love him, you'll stay with him. He promises to try to not do it again!

Anyway, this interview reminds me of how irritating the build up to The Expendables was, and any given beer or truck commercial. These are for MEN! This is a manly movie, for men! Manly men! No girls allowed! etc. And just like many women will respond favourably to Condon's assessment, many men bask in their constructed, self-destructive manly-manliness.

Saw a few responses to my quote, so thought I should clarify my statement. I'm referring to the older stereotypical romance novels involving a dark, mysterious man, with a possibly evil past, redeemed by the love of the right woman. When Harry Met Sally is a lighter expression of this genre, where Harry is a cad because he enjoys the company of women but doesn't want a relationship. Yea, he has sex with them, but not wanting to commit doesn't make him as bad as the script portrays him. And, as we've never seen his past relationships, we don't know if he was upfront and honest about his intentions and the women involved were willing participants.

Regardless, it took the love of a goofy, quirky woman to bring him out of his shell and realize how much of an ass he was, leading to his desire to commit to a woman that, quite frankly, would have driven me insane on the first date.

Not being a reader of modern romances, I don't know how the genre has changed. But I will admit to enjoying rom-coms that kept BOTH characters as flawed in some way, and their relationship brought out the best in both of them. Like While You Were Sleeping, It Could Happen to You and 10 Things I Hate About You. All three feature people with real hangups growing from their relationship with each other, not women who are saintly and men who are trolls. At least in my opinion.

So, if modern romantic fiction has evolved into something more along those lines, I stand corrected and apologize for upsetting any fans out there. My bad.

By the way, not claiming to be a manly man or anything (as I can't having admitted to like some rom-coms Happy ), but The Expendables sucked. All those action stars, and we get a script that wouldn't be greenlit back in the 80s. If that's the best action film the genre has to offer, then I'm glad I'm a horror fan.

Theron wrote:
Chris McMillan wrote:

...Harlequin romance with vampires and werewolves.

It all goes back to Romeo & Juliet. Fucking Shakespeare...

Damn, which play has vampires and werewolves? I missed that one in college.

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Chris McMillan wrote:
Theron wrote:
Chris McMillan wrote:

...Harlequin romance with vampires and werewolves.

It all goes back to Romeo & Juliet. Fucking Shakespeare...

Damn, which play has vampires and werewolves? I missed that one in college.

Subtext, my friend...

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By the way...the Immortals ads running in my area are promoting that film as the manly alternative to the girls vampires of Twilight.

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Thomwade wrote:

By the way...the Immortals ads running in my area are promoting that film as the manly alternative to the girls vampires of Twilight.

Oh God, I saw that. This is it:

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AND here is "Breaking Dawn" for dudes:

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Superheidi wrote:

AND here is "Breaking Dawn" for dudes:

I resent being reduced to such a cliched character. I hate to act like a woman and be overemotional, but it's hurtful to be thought of this way, even if it's as a joke.

That said, this version of Breaking Dawn does look pretty, ahem, intriguing.

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Nice to see Bill Condon is articulate enough to be able to justify his selling out by directing this bilge.

I don't give a fuck about DREAMGIRLS or that CHICAGO bullshit. But GODS AND MONSTERS is one of the best movies of the last 15 years, so it's a shame that he is reduced to directing pap like this.

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And Breaking Dawn I takes the weekend, with a three-day gross of $139.9 million. Not quite as much as New Moon opened with, but still amazing. It cost $110 million to make, so when we factor in marketing costs, it probably hasn't broken even yet...but it won't take long.

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BTW, I'm watching Take Me Home Tonight, and Teresa Palmer needs to do a lesbian vampire movie with K-Stew Like NOW.

I don't know if I would take the interview with Condon that seriously. Every director of big budget crap will say "it's fantastic fun with a lotta heart!", or whatever. It's not like he's going to come out and say "FYI the movie I just got paid $10 million to direct is stupid and insulting towards women so don't watch it."

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Cash Bailey wrote:

Nice to see Bill Condon is articulate enough to be able to justify his selling out by directing this bilge.

I don't give a fuck about DREAMGIRLS or that CHICAGO bullshit. But GODS AND MONSTERS is one of the best movies of the last 15 years, so it's a shame that he is reduced to directing pap like this.

You know that is one of my absolute favorite movies.

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http://www.alternet.org/story/153158/the_bloody%2C_twisted%2C_inverted_w...

Alternet agrees with me.

Quote:

The first moment occurs when two vampires argue over the creature growing in human heroine Bella’s belly. While most of the family calls it a fetus, Rosalie, the bereft Vampire Who Never Got to be a Mother, cries out (echoing the author’s point of view) “it’s not a fetus, it’s a baby!” The conservative sexual politics of Twilight are thus foregrounded, and the fetus, once born, will be beloved even though it kills its mother on delivery (never fear, she’s resurrected as a vampire).

Quote:

Every time a new installment of the neverending Twilight film franchise comes out, I have to reassess this massively popular tale that is such a paradox: it’s centered around a young woman’s desire, yes, but it’s a desire for all the wrong things (by feminist standards as well as by normal social ones). There’s no question that Twilight is saturated with sexist tropes--to the point of being disturbing.

Quote:

A real Edward would be an abusive stalker. A real Bella would probably be labeled a slut for pursuing Edward, or maybe end up dead from carrying his child. A real Bella might want an abortion and be stopped by men in authority, instead of the other way around. A real Bella might want to continue her education or career but feel pressured to get married, instead of the other way around. And if a real Bella were able to express her desires freely and escape stigma, that would be due to feminism, not a chiseled killer who watches her while she sleeps.

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Superheidi wrote:

http://www.alternet.org/story/153158/the_bloody%2C_twisted%2C_inverted_world_of_twilight%3A_violent_vampire_sex%2C_demon-babies_and_overwhelming_female_desire?akid=7881.210272.ICJX7n&rd=1&t=12

Alternet agrees with me.

Quote:

The first moment occurs when two vampires argue over the creature growing in human heroine Bella’s belly. While most of the family calls it a fetus, Rosalie, the bereft Vampire Who Never Got to be a Mother, cries out (echoing the author’s point of view) “it’s not a fetus, it’s a baby!” The conservative sexual politics of Twilight are thus foregrounded, and the fetus, once born, will be beloved even though it kills its mother on delivery (never fear, she’s resurrected as a vampire).

Quote:

Every time a new installment of the neverending Twilight film franchise comes out, I have to reassess this massively popular tale that is such a paradox: it’s centered around a young woman’s desire, yes, but it’s a desire for all the wrong things (by feminist standards as well as by normal social ones). There’s no question that Twilight is saturated with sexist tropes--to the point of being disturbing.

Quote:

A real Edward would be an abusive stalker. A real Bella would probably be labeled a slut for pursuing Edward, or maybe end up dead from carrying his child. A real Bella might want an abortion and be stopped by men in authority, instead of the other way around. A real Bella might want to continue her education or career but feel pressured to get married, instead of the other way around. And if a real Bella were able to express her desires freely and escape stigma, that would be due to feminism, not a chiseled killer who watches her while she sleeps.

Here's another quote from that article:
"But the other moment occurs on Bella’s honeymoon, after her first night of lovemaking with her vampire husband results in a broken bedboard, feathers everywhere, bruises on her body--and a big smile on her face. In one of the film's more memorable scenes, Bella stands in front of the mirror and remembers sleeping with her husband with pleasure playing across her face, not noticing the bruises. But husband Edward, chagrined at said bruises, refuses to consummate their marriage again despite her best attempts at seduction. Finally, she begins to beg him to sleep with her again: “Please,” she says, crying. “Please.” This is a girl who has wanted some vampire loving from day one (or book one), and she’s not going to take “no” for an answer, even if it kills her (eventually, it does.)"

OK, know what? I actually have had fun with the first few installments of Twilight; never taking it seriously, just going to the movies with gal pals, whooping it up, drooling over the guys, etc. I saw a clip where Jackson Rathbone, that gorgeous devil, met a well known Twihard and told her that in Breaking Dawn she would see "Vampires having sex"; then he winked and blew her a kiss afterward. That was hawt, I was impressed.

But after reading this, I think I'll be staying home from Breaking Dawn. Because here is what really scares me; this film was cut to maintain its PG-13 rating. What was cut? Some shots of Robert Pattinson's thrusting butt (which from what I've understood we'll get to see in Bel Ami anyway)--not a bruised woman begging for more of the rough sex that put her in that state in the first place.

I know for a fact that I will never outsell Stephenie Meyer; but my vampires would never hurt their heroines; and if they did, my heroines would fight back with a vengeance and then leave. Ms. Meyer and Mr. Condon should be ashamed of themselves.

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MeganHussey wrote:

Here's another quote from that article:
"But the other moment occurs on Bella’s honeymoon, after her first night of lovemaking with her vampire husband results in a broken bedboard, feathers everywhere, bruises on her body--and a big smile on her face. In one of the film's more memorable scenes, Bella stands in front of the mirror and remembers sleeping with her husband with pleasure playing across her face, not noticing the bruises. But husband Edward, chagrined at said bruises, refuses to consummate their marriage again despite her best attempts at seduction. Finally, she begins to beg him to sleep with her again: “Please,” she says, crying. “Please.” This is a girl who has wanted some vampire loving from day one (or book one), and she’s not going to take “no” for an answer, even if it kills her (eventually, it does.)"

OK, know what? I actually have had fun with the first few installments of Twilight; never taking it seriously, just going to the movies with gal pals, whooping it up, drooling over the guys, etc. I saw a clip where Jackson Rathbone, that gorgeous devil, met a well known Twihard and told her that in Breaking Dawn she would see "Vampires having sex"; then he winked and blew her a kiss afterward. That was hawt, I was impressed.

But after reading this, I think I'll be staying home from Breaking Dawn. Because here is what really scares me; this film was cut to maintain its PG-13 rating. What was cut? Some shots of Robert Pattinson's thrusting butt (which from what I've understood we'll get to see in Bel Ami anyway)--not a bruised woman begging for more of the rough sex that put her in that state in the first place.

I know for a fact that I will never outsell Stephenie Meyer; but my vampires would never hurt their heroines; and if they did, my heroines would fight back with a vengeance and then leave. Ms. Meyer and Mr. Condon should be ashamed of themselves.

Sort of reminiscent of that awful moment in Gone with the Wind that I forget about until it happens every time I watch the film:

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Superheidi wrote:
MeganHussey wrote:

Here's another quote from that article:
"But the other moment occurs on Bella’s honeymoon, after her first night of lovemaking with her vampire husband results in a broken bedboard, feathers everywhere, bruises on her body--and a big smile on her face. In one of the film's more memorable scenes, Bella stands in front of the mirror and remembers sleeping with her husband with pleasure playing across her face, not noticing the bruises. But husband Edward, chagrined at said bruises, refuses to consummate their marriage again despite her best attempts at seduction. Finally, she begins to beg him to sleep with her again: “Please,” she says, crying. “Please.” This is a girl who has wanted some vampire loving from day one (or book one), and she’s not going to take “no” for an answer, even if it kills her (eventually, it does.)"

OK, know what? I actually have had fun with the first few installments of Twilight; never taking it seriously, just going to the movies with gal pals, whooping it up, drooling over the guys, etc. I saw a clip where Jackson Rathbone, that gorgeous devil, met a well known Twihard and told her that in Breaking Dawn she would see "Vampires having sex"; then he winked and blew her a kiss afterward. That was hawt, I was impressed.

But after reading this, I think I'll be staying home from Breaking Dawn. Because here is what really scares me; this film was cut to maintain its PG-13 rating. What was cut? Some shots of Robert Pattinson's thrusting butt (which from what I've understood we'll get to see in Bel Ami anyway)--not a bruised woman begging for more of the rough sex that put her in that state in the first place.

I know for a fact that I will never outsell Stephenie Meyer; but my vampires would never hurt their heroines; and if they did, my heroines would fight back with a vengeance and then leave. Ms. Meyer and Mr. Condon should be ashamed of themselves.

Sort of reminiscent of that awful moment in Gone with the Wind that I forget about until it happens every time I watch the film:

You know Heidi I thought about this clip after I read that article; and did you know that a keepsake Gone With the Wind ornament was made of that scene, showing Rhett carrying Scarlett up the stairs? Nothing like a little rape to spruce up one's Christmas tree...

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And something from Bust Magazine now: http://bust.com/blog/2011/11/22/the-twilight-saga-is-breaking-dawn-femin...

Quote:

The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn – Part 1, was released last Friday, and had the 5th highest-grossing opening weekend ever. Girls, tweens, and full-grown ladies around the world are flocking to movie theaters to see the film, but what are they taking away from it? Mild spoiler, but in the movie, leading lady Bella opts to carry her demon baby to term, risking her life in the process. Melissa Rosenberg, screenwriter for the entirety of The Twilight Saga and self-proclaimed feminist, has described Breaking Dawn by saying, “we are fighting for choice and [Bella] makes choices.” If Bella's got so much authority, are we supposed to assume the movie is feminist?

Rosenberg commented on Bella's choices in an interview posted on screenrant.com, saying, “I had no interest in violating Stephenie’s belief system or anyone on the other side. I feel a great responsibility that everyone should have their point-of-view. And their beliefs respected. So I really was struggling with it until I talked with my sister-in-law who’s actually a former ACLU feminist lawyer and a fan of the books. And she pointed something out to me (which is quite obvious but which I had overlooked) which is that having a child is a choice.

“It is a choice to have a child. And having not made that choice in my own life, having actually done the opposite, that had not really occurred to me...And so for me, it was that Bella chooses this. Now someone else may not perceive that, and that’s great...It’s a story about a woman who chooses to have a child. For me. That may or may not be how it is in the book. And some people will have issues with it.”

I support a woman's right to choose, but I don't think the mere fact that Bella opted to have the baby makes Breaking Dawn a feminist work. What do you think?

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MeganHussey's picture
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Superheidi wrote:

And something from Bust Magazine now: http://bust.com/blog/2011/11/22/the-twilight-saga-is-breaking-dawn-femin...

Quote:

The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn – Part 1, was released last Friday, and had the 5th highest-grossing opening weekend ever. Girls, tweens, and full-grown ladies around the world are flocking to movie theaters to see the film, but what are they taking away from it? Mild spoiler, but in the movie, leading lady Bella opts to carry her demon baby to term, risking her life in the process. Melissa Rosenberg, screenwriter for the entirety of The Twilight Saga and self-proclaimed feminist, has described Breaking Dawn by saying, “we are fighting for choice and [Bella] makes choices.” If Bella's got so much authority, are we supposed to assume the movie is feminist?

Rosenberg commented on Bella's choices in an interview posted on screenrant.com, saying, “I had no interest in violating Stephenie’s belief system or anyone on the other side. I feel a great responsibility that everyone should have their point-of-view. And their beliefs respected. So I really was struggling with it until I talked with my sister-in-law who’s actually a former ACLU feminist lawyer and a fan of the books. And she pointed something out to me (which is quite obvious but which I had overlooked) which is that having a child is a choice.

“It is a choice to have a child. And having not made that choice in my own life, having actually done the opposite, that had not really occurred to me...And so for me, it was that Bella chooses this. Now someone else may not perceive that, and that’s great...It’s a story about a woman who chooses to have a child. For me. That may or may not be how it is in the book. And some people will have issues with it.”

I support a woman's right to choose, but I don't think the mere fact that Bella opted to have the baby makes Breaking Dawn a feminist work. What do you think?

Bella insists throughout the series that she is choosing, to become a vampire, to marry one, to endure a life threatening pregnancy, etc.; yes technically she is, but her emotions rule her. When Edward goes away in New Moon she shuts down and stares out a window for 6 months, then engages in self-destructive behavior just to get Edward's attention. Yes she makes choices, but not always with her mind, rather with her emotions. And regardless of your stance on choice, continuing a pregnancy that endangers your life is a wretched choice.

Awhile back my friend Petra Joy, a feminist porn filmmaker, did a great blog on this subject, which I've quoted here:
Choose Family, Choose Life?

Posted: 10 February 2010
The Ad for the 'Choose Family, Choose Life?' campaign.

On the 7.2.2010, a “pro-life” ad ran on one of the most-watched televised events in the USA - the Super Bowl. The ad’s theme: football star Tim Tebow was once a fetus whose birth posed significant medical risks to his mother. A doctor advised her to abort the child. She, obviously, did not. And guess what? Her son is now a star athlete and sporting hero of the nation. She calls him her “miracle baby”.

On the surface the ad that was created by the “focus on the family” charity simply promotes motherly love and family values. Not once is the term “abortion” mentioned. But the subtitles of the ad tell a different story: “You should never abort your baby even if its health or your health is at risk. even if you might die because of the pregnancy or at birth. You never know – you child and your might pull through and the sick baby might grow up to become a national icon.” What the ad fails to address is what happens if the mother does actually die during pregnancy or at birth or if a child is born with severe handicaps that will not allow them to life a healthy, long and fulfilled life.

It is great for the Tebow’s that in their case the story had a happy ending, but that does not mean that abortions for health reasons are “wrong” and going through pregnancy and birth no matter what is the right thing to do.

I’m sure some will make the argument that the “pro life” ad is simply a product of free speech. But part of free speech is that all voices will be heard and presented in a balanced manner. By broadcasting this ad, CBS is making itself known as a station that supports the pro-life argument. Just like when it rejected mancrunch.com’s bid to advertise gay dating this year, it makes a statement that they are opposed to same-sex partnerships. You can be certain that CBS would not air an ad that promotes the right of a woman to choose abortion. The TV stations' decisions have consequences that reach far and wide. They choose which political messages will be presented in an entertaining context such as the biggest sports event of the year and consequently will reach and influence millions of viewers.

To air the anti-choice ad cost $3 million (donated by an unnamed sponsor) – money that could have been spent helping sick children who are already born but have no parents to look after them to have a better life; money that could have been spent on sex education or free contraceptives helping to avoid unwanted pregnancies and future abortions.

I believe that the decision to abort within the legal framework is a private matter and should not be questioned in glossy but manipulative ads - aired at prime time to the nation. This is not a small matter – it is war. War between the “pro choice” promoters and the “pro life” fanatics. The problem is that some followers of the “pro life” team fight with their war with lethal weapons. Adverts are one weapon, guns are another.

It is absurd that in the name of the “pro-life” movement all but one US doctor performing late abortions due to medical reasons have been shot and killed. Eight doctors have been killed and there has already been an attempt to kill Dr. Warren Hern, the last doctor in the US doing this work. He operates within the law - yet he can only do his work behind bulletproof doors, shadowed by armed bodyguards and has to live in fear that he is next.

Choose Family, Choose life? I say choose freedom to decide what you think is best for you and your fetus without being blackmailed by conservative and religious guilt trips.

From petrajoy.com (This woman and her movies rule!)

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This comes to mind when I think of abortion: This month's Hustler (the January 2012?) features a Hustler "classic" cartoon which shows two men about to storm an abortion clinic with guns. Their intent is to kill the doctor who performs abortions, and they are clearly part of a right-wing group that considers doctors "baby killers" when they perform abortions.

One of the men pauses before they enter the clinic, guns drawn, and stops the other man. He says, concerned, "But what if the baby the doctor was going to abort grows up to be a fag?"

It just so perfectly illustrates the conservative anti-abortion control of our sex lives.

God, i wish I could find it. Did some unsuccessful googling.

__________________

I'm the owner and editor of PlanetFury. You can also find me at PlanetEtheria.com

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MeganHussey's picture
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Posts: 706

Superheidi wrote:

This comes to mind when I think of abortion: This month's Hustler (the January 2012?) features a Hustler "classic" cartoon which shows two men about to storm an abortion clinic with guns. Their intent is to kill the doctor who performs abortions, and they are clearly part of a right-wing group that considers doctors "baby killers" when they perform abortions.

One of the men pauses before they enter the clinic, guns drawn, and stops the other man. He says, concerned, "But what if the baby the doctor was going to abort grows up to be a fag?"

It just so perfectly illustrates the conservative anti-abortion control of our sex lives.

God, i wish I could find it. Did some unsuccessful googling.

This issue is very personal to me, as I have friends who lost their 17-year-old daughter to an illegal back alley abortion. There's one life lost and three others (including the girl's brother) irreversibly damaged--thanks, "pro-lifers!"

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Apologies Heidi. I think what I saw was a link from the Planet Fury newsletter, regarding the 'remake' of The Crow. That's what led me to my misunderstanding that your sites are connected. Now that I'm familiar with that site I'll obviously know not to click on links to it. The article "The Crow that Might Have Been" is the one I was confused by.

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