Third-wave feminist pioneer Naomi Wolf and Jezebel's Maureen Tkacik debate the recent Dominique Strauss-Kahn sexual assault case, and Tkacik's views are just...embarrassing.
Editor-at-Large Chrystia Freeland moderated this interview between the two women for Reuters.
Naomi Wolf, in case you don't know, is the author of controversial feminist works like The Beauty Myth and is largely credited with the advent of "third wave feminism", in which a new generation of feminists embraced each others' differences and decided feminism could be acted out in different ways (i.e. you can wear heels and look slutty and still be a feminist).
Maureen Tkacik ("Moe"), on the other hand, has had a career as a writer for corporate-owned, commodity-feminism-driven "women's website" Jezebel.com, and is the author of such journalistic masterpieces of great intellectual thought and feeling as 2008's "10 Days in the life of a Tampon" in which she describes fucking, like, ten different guys in one week completely devoid of any feeling or connection on any real level, calling this shit "routine debauchery" and referring to men in such respectful ways as "sex partner d'giorno" while lamenting, you know, her period. It's almost pitiful listening to her total lack of self esteem as she describes making out with a guy who then lets her down by telling her he wants to marry his girlfriend so, you know, he can't take her home and do her, and she just goes and fucks a bunch of losers she doesn't like, while totally intoxicated, like, on a Tuesday. Anyway, people consider her a real feminist, because she wrote about tampons and sex, and that's girl stuff!
"Oh, wait, Heidi, don't slut shame!!" is probably what someone is thinking. Fine. I won't shame the slut for having sex. But I'd like to point out that if you're getting wasted every night, fucking random people and have virtually zero human connection to anyone, you have bigger problems than "OMG my period sucks!"
Anyway, "Moe" and Naomi were invited on Reuters as two feminists to talk about the recent case in which French former International Monetary Fund head Dominique Strauss-Kahn was arrested for sexually assaulting his hotel maid.
Wolf is reasonable, rational, and defends judicial due process while Tkacik says she was date-raped once in college in Pittsburgh, but never reported it because "that kind of thing happens there." She also says that rape is a result of men "not taking women seriously" and that we can assume a sleazy dude is guilty before conducting a trial.
Naomi Wolf wants to rip her head off, as do I. She points out that Tkacik has no real concept of women's consent and criminal behavior versus seduction. Reading Tkacik's Tampon Article, in which she continually gets so drunk she doesn't remember having sex and wakes up with no idea what happened the night before but knows she definitely had sex may have a warped concept of "consent" as well.
Speaking of which - how the fuck do people like Moe get a job? By being "edgy"? Do the old, white men in charge know what "edgy" is? Because I think there's a big difference between "edgy" and "fucking dumb" and I'm not sure why The Washington Post, where Moe now writes, can't tell the difference. This woman is not only all about "feminism is sex with drunk strangers and also abortions because I get them" but she clearly has no idea about laws, rape, date rape, love affairs, and the differences between all of those things. Moe makes feminists under 30 look like idiots. She makes women look like dumb whores. I'm on team Naomi at this point, who makes sure to say she believes in due process, women reporting rape, and making a distinction between sleazy behavior and criminal behavior. And smart women, and smart people, know the differences. Watch the debate:
Agreed. No legal system is perfect, most are far from it, but living in a first world country we're doing better than other areas of the world in this arena.
This goes to show how important it is to be educated about every aspect of being a woman, including rights and freedoms. To me that's what being a woman means, gaining knowledge so that whatever actions you choose to engage in you're at least aware.
Naomi Wolf wants to rip her head off, as do I. She points out that Tkacik has no real concept of women's consent and criminal behavior versus seduction. Reading Tkacik's Tampon Article, in which she continually gets so drunk she doesn't remember having sex and wakes up with no idea what happened the night before but knows she definitely had sex may have a warped concept of "consent" as well.
God, I want to rip her head off as well, and I haven't seen the entire video (as I can't get it to load on my computer).
I'm certainly glad to see that Naomi Wolf has gotten her shit together, because she was on the total opposite side of the fence during the Julian Assange rape accusations. Of course she is not nearly as dumb as Moe, but she wrote that nauseating public statement calling Interpol the "dating police" and frequently used the phrase "making love" when describing what was a clear absence of consent from either of those women. And then she justified her stance by saying that she's worked with rape victims before, so she's in a better position to gauge who's a true victim. She got a considerable amount of criticism from many other feminist commentators for such statements, so I'd really like to believe that she took them to heart, but maybe she only "believes in due process, women reporting rape, and making a distinction between sleazy behavior and criminal behavior" when the accused is someone she herself would not fuck.
Are you fucking serious? lol That woman Moe looks like a a sorority girl that is parodying around as a wannabe feminist.
It is really sad she actually said "What can I do as a person I have no power?!" Than why the hell are you even a feminist, you're suppose to help empower other women. You thinking writing about tampons and shit like that is going to help?
Plus the "Ums" during that debate showed that she was probably high during that whole thing. She looked like she was high as hell.
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"I hurt" - Karen Cooper "Night Of The Living Dead"
I'd really like to believe that she took them to heart, but maybe she only "believes in due process, women reporting rape, and making a distinction between sleazy behavior and criminal behavior" when the accused is someone she herself would not fuck.
I'm certainly glad to see that Naomi Wolf has gotten her shit together, because she was on the total opposite side of the fence during the Julian Assange rape accusations. Of course she is not nearly as dumb as Moe, but she wrote that nauseating public statement calling Interpol the "dating police" and frequently used the phrase "making love" when describing what was a clear absence of consent from either of those women. And then she justified her stance by saying that she's worked with rape victims before, so she's in a better position to gauge who's a true victim. She got a considerable amount of criticism from many other feminist commentators for such statements, so I'd really like to believe that she took them to heart, but maybe she only "believes in due process, women reporting rape, and making a distinction between sleazy behavior and criminal behavior" when the accused is someone she herself would not fuck.
You're right, I was always a great supporter of Wolf and even actively defended her in debates; and I was dismayed when I heard another feminist had started a website called Naomi Wolf Doesn't Speak for Me. Then I read about her comments on the Assange case and it both broke my heart and turned my stomach. Where had the powerhouse author of The Beauty Myth gone, and who was this insensitive fembot who had taken her place? She did well in this debate but my trust and respect for her have dwindled.
I have a few reasons for disliking Naomi but I am glad she was here for this interview. I like some Jezebel's articles but I have to agree, Moe needs to shut up on all things rape if this is what she's thinking. I mean there IS a huge problem with women who feel as though they are trapped and go along with something because they have no other choice. BUT if rape is going to be taken seriously we need to draw a line and say "consent is consent but the lack of consent is NOT consent no matter what." There are shitty, unhealthy sexual relationships but they aren't all rape, there ARE some that are just unhealthy even though a partner has given consent.
You're right, I was always a great supporter of Wolf and even actively defended her in debates; and I was dismayed when I heard another feminist had started a website called Naomi Wolf Doesn't Speak for Me. Then I read about her comments on the Assange case and it both broke my heart and turned my stomach. Where had the powerhouse author of The Beauty Myth gone, and who was this insensitive fembot who had taken her place? She did well in this debate but my trust and respect for her have dwindled.
Naomi Wolf and Jaclyn Friedman of Yes Means Yes had a televised debate like this one during the Assange situation, and Jaclyn totally SCHOOLED Naomi. I take her MUCH less seriously now, the least of which because everyone I knew who was in major support of Assange was showing it by engaging in the most anti-woman venom after the rape allegations came out. I was horrified to discover that some people I knew, both men and women, who always identified themselves as liberals and progressives really thought nothing of minimizing rape. And then to have a prominent feminist like Naomi Wolf come out and say the same things seemed to validate them all. Suddenly they were all reading The Beauty Myth when they never gave an actual fuck about feminism before.
I can't help wondering if she was chosen for this precisely because the producers expected a giant train wreck, what with her track history and Moe's total incompetence.
You're right, I was always a great supporter of Wolf and even actively defended her in debates; and I was dismayed when I heard another feminist had started a website called Naomi Wolf Doesn't Speak for Me. Then I read about her comments on the Assange case and it both broke my heart and turned my stomach. Where had the powerhouse author of The Beauty Myth gone, and who was this insensitive fembot who had taken her place? She did well in this debate but my trust and respect for her have dwindled.
Naomi Wolf and Jaclyn Friedman of Yes Means Yes had a televised debate like this one during the Assange situation, and Jaclyn totally SCHOOLED Naomi. I take her MUCH less seriously now, the least of which because everyone I knew who was in major support of Assange was showing it by engaging in the most anti-woman venom after the rape allegations came out. I was horrified to discover that some people I knew, both men and women, who always identified themselves as liberals and progressives really thought nothing of minimizing rape. And then to have a prominent feminist like Naomi Wolf come out and say the same things seemed to validate them all. Suddenly they were all reading The Beauty Myth when they never gave an actual fuck about feminism before.
I can't help wondering if she was chosen for this precisely because the producers expected a giant train wreck, what with her track history and Moe's total incompetence.
Absolutely, the Assange case brought out the ugly side in a lot of people I once admired, Wolf included. I think it will take her a long time to rebuild trust and faith within the feminist community, if it's even possible.
I can't help wondering if she was chosen for this precisely because the producers expected a giant train wreck, what with her track history and Moe's total incompetence.
Absolutely, the Assange case brought out the ugly side in a lot of people I once admired, Wolf included. I think it will take her a long time to rebuild trust and faith within the feminist community, if it's even possible.
Dude, you know that when Naomi found out she was being offered this interview against Moe she was like, "I am going to look SO FUCKING GOOD again"
I'm just really thankful that Naomi Wolf's resurgence via rape apologism didn't revive her old personality pissing contest with Phyllis Chesler. THAT shit is so tired.
Agreed. No legal system is perfect, most are far from it, but living in a first world country we're doing better than other areas of the world in this arena.
This goes to show how important it is to be educated about every aspect of being a woman, including rights and freedoms. To me that's what being a woman means, gaining knowledge so that whatever actions you choose to engage in you're at least aware.